On Thursday September 11 2008 while driving my vehicle stalled, cut off in traffic and would not restart. Luckily no one was behind me. A police officer stopped to help and asked if I needed a tow, I advised them I was in the process of calling a tow truck to pick-up my vehicle. My vehicle was towed to the Blossom Chevrolet, an Indianapolis GM dealer from whom I purchased it from. The next morning, Friday September 12, 2008 I went to the Blossom dealership to leave my keys and explain why my vehicle was there. The serviceman @ Blossom advised me they would perform a diagnostic and advised me the cost would be $108.00. Later that day on September 12, 2008 I received a call from the serviceman of Blossom to inform me they completed the diagnostic and stated the timing chain failed. The Blossom serviceman quoted me a price for repairs of $1,505.00. I informed him I needed to give him a call back. I spoke with a friend about my situation
and was advised service bulletin # 06074 information on 2001 “L” series Saturn’s and the timing chain problems. The service bulletin # 06074A indicated the timing chain engine stall on 2001 “L” series Saturn’s with vehicle identification numbers from 1Y504884 to 1Y559453. I called my serviceman back and explained to him about the service bulletin and provided him with the service bulletin number #06074A. He located the bulletin himself and stated my vehicle does fall within the “vin” number series. He checked to see if my engine matched and it was the correct engine. He replied he would speak with his warranty clerk and call me back. While waiting for him to call me back, I called Saturn of Indianapolis and spoke with Warren about the service bulletin, he checked his information and informed me my 2001 “L” series with vehicle identification number (vin) ending as 1Y522171 was not included. I received a call back from the serviceman @ Blossom Chevrolet and was informed even though they are part of GM (General Motors) they could not complete the warranty work and I needed to have the warranty work completed by a Saturn dealer. I then called back Saturn of Indianapolis and spoke with Warren again about the service bulletin and was given a number to contact Saturn customer service.
September 12, 2008 @ 4:49pm, I spoke with Phil Fenton of Saturn Customer Service. I explained to him what I was calling about. I gave him my first, last name and phone number. He asked for the “vin” number of my vehicle. Phil asked for the number of miles on my vehicle. Phil placed me on hold and came back to the line. Phil stated, he looked at the vehicle history and showed only 1 recall pertaining to the tail lamp/brake light. I explained to him that my vehicle stalled and stopped while I was driving. I advised him about the service bulletin # 06074A and that I spoke with someone at a Saturn dealership and they did not find my vehicle on dealer world. Phil stated that they could look into to some type of cost assistance, but he could not promise anything on that. Phil stated my vehicle was not covered under any special recall or bulletin on his computer and it would not be covered under that spectrum of things but definitely he could speak to the service department to see if there is any assistance that they could provide for me. I asked Phil what type of assistance would be provided. Phil stated he would have to speak with them to see if there is any ability to provide some cost assistance. Phil stated he was not saying that he would be able to, but he would be able to look into it for me.
Continuation of Complaint-page 2
I informed him that I would like for him to speak with the dealership and advised him that I was looking at the service bulletin regarding the timing chain. Phil stated recalls due affect particular vehicles not all vehicles and on sometimes the same issue does happen but it has nothing to do with the actual recall. Phil stated again he was not showing a recall on my vehicle, but he stated he would like to look into it and speak with the dealership and see there is anything they can do for me. Phil asked for my address so he could open up a file. I provided him with my address. Phil asked me if I was the original owner of the vehicle. I explained to him I was not the original owner but I purchased the vehicle from a dealership and someone else owned the vehicle before me. Phil asked if I was the primary driver of the vehicle. I informed him, I was. Phil asked if the vehicle was for personal use or business. I informed him I use the vehicle to go to work. He asked for the name of the dealership I purchased the vehicle at. I told him Blossom Chevrolet in Indianapolis, IN. Phil asked again about the mileage repeated what I advised him (about 70,000 miles). Phil asked for the mileage when the vehicle was purchased. I answered about 48,000 close to 50,000 miles, but was not sure of the exact mileage. Phil asked when I purchased the vehicle. I answered in April of 2007. Phil asked if I purchased an extended service plan. I informed him I did not purchase an extended service plan. Phil asked when about did the timing chain problem occur. I informed him yesterday (9-11-08) while I was driving, the vehicle acted like it was going to cut off and it did cut off and did not restart. I explained again that I had my vehicle towed to the dealership and they did a diagnostic on it and determined what the problem was, timing chain. Phil asked what Saturn retailer was it. I explained that I had taken my vehicle to the same place where I purchased it from which was Blossom Chevrolet. Phil stated what he needed me to do is if I am looking for some sort of cost assistance, it would have to go to a Saturn retailer. I informed him that I did contact them (Saturn) and the person I spoke with had indicated he did not see my vehicle in the recall. Per Phil my vehicle is not. Phil stated if I am seeking some sort of cost assistance they would have to have me to take my vehicle to a Saturn retailer and have them to diagnose it and the diagnostic charge would be at my own cost since the vehicle is not covered under warranty any longer and then after that he would certainly look into some sort of cost assistance. I asked him what would be done after my vehicle is taken to the Saturn dealership. I asked Phil if someone contact the dealership to discuss the issue or if I would needed to do so. Phil stated what I would have to do is take it in and he could setup an appointment for me to take it in to the retailer and I would need to have the diagnostic done on it and I would have to pay for it and then what he would be able to do is phone the dealership back find out the diagnosis on it, speak with the manager there to see if there’s anything that they could do for me and then get back in contact with me. I informed him that I would call him back on Monday. Phil stated he had opened up a file and would temporarily close it for when I phone back with my decision. Phil gave me his direct line so I would not have to go through this again with someone else. Phil gave me his name (Phil) and number of 866-790-5700 ext 41730 and my file # is 71662930050.
Continuation of Complaint-page 3
Phil stated he would temporarily close the file if I’ve decided to take it to the dealership to give him a call back and go from there. Phil asked if there was anything else that he could do for me. I responded, not for now and we ended the call.
On September 14th 2008 I paid the diagnostic fee at GM dealer (Blossom) for the diagnosis and received the service paperwork from them along with a copy of the service bulletin I informed them of. I then had my vehicle towed to Saturn the same day.
On September 16, 2008 at 10:24am I received a call from Debbie of Saturn stating my vehicle does not qualify for the recall and what needed to be done is to tear down the engine to find out what kind of damage has been done. Debbie stated the tear down cost translates to about $291.00. I asked her why my vehicle was not included in the recall. Debbie stated she could not. Debbie stated they pull from a site directly from General Motors that tells them all the information on any car and it told her what recalls are available for each individual vehicle and my vehicle is not included in that timing chain recall. Debbie advised me I had 1 for the tail light that she could do. I asked why there is a service bulletin with a range showing vin numbers that is included in the warranty work and my vehicle is in the range, but I’m not included. Debbie stated recalls depend on a lot of different things not only that year and the vin number. Debbie stated it depends on what plant it comes out of, what time of the week it is and that type of thing, so all of the vehicles even though they fall under that do not qualify. I asked for her to send me something in writing about that. I gave her my fax number. I received 2 faxes from her. 1 showing the recalls available on the vehicle and a copy of the service bulletin pointing out not all vehicles are included on the bulletin in the vin range.
On September 16, 2008 at 2:36pm, I called Debbie back at Saturn to advise her that I received the information she faxed to me and advised her I was aware of other complaints that were reported about the timing chain engine stall and I would be filing a complaint with consumer affairs and other organizations. Debbie asked me if I had called Saturn directly. I asked for the number of Saturn directly. Debbie gave me the same number I already had. Debbie stated the fax from her of the service bulletin with a note on the cover page stating to see the noted area of the bulletin
On September 16, 2008 at 2:49pm, I called Saturn Customer Assistance and spoke with Amy Casey. I informed her that I was calling to speak with Phil and that I was trying to reach him on the direct extension that he gave me. Amy asked me if I had a case number. I informed her that I had a file number but I was not sure if it was still open or not. I gave her the file #. Amy checked to see if the case was still open. Amy asked for my name. I gave her the information. Amy asked, when was the last time I spoke with Phil. I informed her Thursday or Friday. Amy asked me if this was regarding a timing chain. I stated yes. Amy stated that he does have the service request closed and she was not sure why but she stated that she would look into.
Continuation of Complaint-page 4
Amy asked me if I had his correct extension and gave her the extension and she advised me that was correct. Amy asked me if I tried that extension and I informed her that I did and got her.
Amy looked to see why the case was closed already. Amy put me on hold for a few minutes while she reviewed the file. Amy came back to the line and asked if I would be taking the vehicle to a Saturn dealer. I stated yes.
Amy stated that she would try Phil’s extension to see if he was available and then if not she would take documentation and notify him through the system. Amy tried his extension. She got his voicemail and she transferred me to his voicemail and she stated she would send him a message as well. I left him a message with my name, file # and the message indicating I wanted to discuss some things with him and to call me back. I also left him a message with my phone numbers to call back.
On September 17, 2008 @ 7:52pm I received a return call from Phil of Saturn Customer Service. I advised him that my vehicle was at the dealership, Saturn of Indianapolis on Georgetown Rd. Phil stated he would contact the dealership and give me a call back.
On September 18, 2008 @ 7:29pm Phil called back and stated he spoke with the dealership and in order to determine the damage I would have to pay $291 to tear down the vehicle. Phil stated that I would have to pay this in order to determine if it was the timing chain. I explained to him that I had a diagnostic done and knew that it was the timing chain. Phil stated that due to the age, mileage and past history of the unit at the dealership I would have to pay the $291.00 for them to tear it down.
On September 23, 2008 @ 1:40pm, I called Dwayne at Saturn of Indianapolis and informed him to fix the tail lamp/brake light recall on my vehicle. I asked him if they did a diagnostic of my vehicle or if they went off of the paperwork I provided to them. Dwayne stated they did not diagnose it at all they just went off the paperwork I provided to them. I informed him that I would come and get my vehicle today and I stated to. I stated to him, there are no charges, is that correct. Dwayne stated, he didn’t think so. I called back @ 1:53pm, to find out when the vehicle will be ready for pick-up. Dwayne stated it would be ready within the hour.
On September 23, 2008 @ 4:15pm I had my vehicle towed to a garage because I felt I should’ve been included in the service bulletin and should’ve not had to pay $291.00 to tear it down when I knew about the timing chain engine stall service bulletin # 06074A and I did not want to be charged storage fees for my vehicle sitting a the dealership.
On September 24, 2008 my repairman at the garage called me and advised me my timing chain had broke, damaged the head and valves. My repairman advised me I was better off replacing the engine.
Continuation of Complaint-page 5
On September 25, 2008 I went to my repairman’s garage and he showed me the damage. I took pictures.
A friend provided me with a contact name and number of someone at General Motors, Libby Tonosko. I called her on September 29, 2008 @ 12:29pm and left a message.
On September 29, 2008 @1:12pm, Libby called back. I explained to her what my situation. I also informed her that someone I knew worked there and provided me her phone number. I informed her I have a 2001 L series Saturn and informed her that I know there was a recall (service bulletin) on timing chain engine stall failure. I explained to her that I have a 2001 Saturn and the same thing happened to my vehicle. Libby asked me how many miles are on it. I informed her 73 thousand and something. Libby stated “that’s all”. I stated yes. I informed her that I did not purchase the vehicle for a Saturn dealership, but I bought it from a GM dealership. Libby asked me new or used. I informed her used. I informed her that while driving my vehicle stopped on me and I had it towed to the dealership where I purchased it. I advised Libby a diagnostic was done to determine what the problem was and the dealership informed me the timing chain had failed and was given a price. I informed her that I talked with some people I work with stated the price was considerably high. Libby asked for the price. I informed her fifteen hundred and something dollars. Libby stated “really and they thought that was high”. Libby asked if anyone were I was at ever replaced a timing chain. I informed her that I had a few people that could do so. Libby put me on hold. Libby came back to the line and I continued to explain. Libby asked if the price of $1,500 was to repair it or replace it. I stated to replace it. Libby asked who I bought it from. I told her Blossom Chevrolet. Libby asked where they were. I continue to explain my story. I informed her that I received some information on the recall and then I stated or the service bulletin. Libby stated correct it was not a recall but a service bulletin. I informed her that the service bulletin indicated stated the same problem I had and it indicated the year, make “L” series as well as the vin numbers from one point to another point. Libby stated okay, go ahead I got all that. Libby said “I mean I know all that go ahead”. So I informed Libby that my vin was included in the vin range for that. So I had it towed to a Saturn dealership and they wanted me to pay $291 to tear it down. Libby replied, “in which they (Saturn) would have been applied to your, them having to replace or repair your transmission”. I stated my transmission. Libby stated I’m sorry not your transmission, but your timing. Libby stated I’m writing and thinking to. I continued to explain I informed her that no one indicated that to me. I informed her they wanted me to pay the $291 to tear it down and I had just paid tow bills and had paid the money for it to be diagnosed at the other shop and I knew what the problem was. Libby stated wait let me make sure I understand. Libby repeated me, at one shop you had it diagnosed. I informed her yes. Libby asked where was done, Blossom, she asked. I informed her yes. Then Libby asked, and then you took it where? I informed her to Saturn. Libby asked me Saturn what. I informed Libby a Saturn dealership in Indianapolis. Libby asked me for the name of the dealership.
Continuation of Complaint-page 6
I informed her Saturn of Indianapolis off of, Pike Plaza Dr. Libby stated you didn’t tow it you just went there right. I informed her that I had it towed there. Libby stated 2 places that you’ve towed it. I stated yes I did. Libby stated okay, then asked me for their number. I gave Libby the number to Saturn of Indianapolis (317) 293-1551. She asked what they told me. I stated they informed me that I needed to pay $291 for them to tear it down. Then she asked me about the $1,500 was at Blossom, is that correct. I stated yes but Saturn did not give me a quote of the amount to repair the timing chain. She asked if they (Saturn) said anything about the tear down fee being applied? I informed her they did not indicate that to me. Blossom informed me that they could not do the warranty work on the service bulletin but I would have to take it to a Saturn dealership. So I informed her that is what I did. She asked me if I bought from Blossom. I stated yes. Libby asked when I purchased the vehicle. I informed her in April of 2007. Libby asked for the mileage on it. I informed her I believe it was forty-eight something miles. Then Libby asked what is it now (mileage). I stated seventy-three something. Libby stated that I got 35 thousand miles out of it from the day I bought it or something like that. Libby stated it ran for 35 thousand miles with no problems approximately. (The mileage was 25,000). Libby stated the only reason why I mentioned that is that she believed the engine ought to run longer than that don’t you? I responded “oh definitely”. Libby asked if I had the bulletin in my hand. I informed her that I did not at the time. Libby looked it up and stated it is well known through out Saturn. I wanted to continue to explain. I informed her that after I received the information I talked with someone at the Saturn 800 number. She asked me if they had given me a complaint number. I told her I have one, but did not have it with me. I informed her that I talked with Phil at that number and I explained to him that my vehicle was still at Chevy and I had it towed. I informed her that Phil also stated I had to pay the $291 to tear it down and I informed her that I did not have that type of money to be just putting out. Libby stated they already know that there’s the bulletin out and they didn’t just cut through the chase. I informed her no. I informed her that I had the vehicle moved because I needed to get the vehicle fixed and if they were not going to do what I know that should’ve been included in that, so I had it moved and I had it moved to a garage. My repairman at the garage informed me some valves were messed up and I would be better off with a new engine. Libby stated it could. Libby asked for the total bill. Then she asked how much do I owe on the car. I informed her that I did not have the total right now. Libby asked if I was financed through GMAC. I informed her that I was financed through someone else. I informed her that I have a bill for $1,300 for a new engine, labor and I have tow bills. Libby started totaling what I informed her of. Libby asked if I was having an engine put in. I informed her yes. Libby asked how was putting it in. I informed her, the garage. Libby stated she cannot deal with me. Libby made a suggestion, she asked if he was already doing it (having my repairs done). I informed her that I was not sure if he (my repairman) started yet.
Continuation of Complaint-page 7
Libby stated she deal with dealerships and once in a while she look at someone who wants to go to who cannot afford, let say we cover half of it. She stated who knows, but I may be able to re-coupe all of it but was just giving me some things to think about. Libby asked by me going to an outside dealership, what would I have something goes wrong.
She stated as compared to if you have it done at a dealership you got if something goes wrong. I replied, a warranty on both sides. She stated that would be up to me. Libby stated she didn’t know the garage that I’m dealing with but she strongly recommend going to a dealership. She stated it can be tracked, they are responsible and they can do more things when the work doesn’t turn out right. Libby stated I did not have to listen to her, but she stated she was giving me options. Libby stated she’s looking at my total bill, she stated $1,300 for the engine and $1,500 for the timing chain. I informed her that was not correct. The $1,500 was the repair price from Blossom before the new of the service bulletin. I informed Libby the price was $1,300 which included the labor to put in the new engine. Libby repeated me. Libby asked, from the garage does the price reflect the engine cost also. I informed her that it does. Libby stated the garage could put in a whole new engine which will also need a new timing chain. I informed her that he will put on a new chain, but I do not have the price at this time for the chain. Libby cautioned me and stated I can do what I want because it is my vehicle. Libby stated let’s say you have to replace both, she stated I’ll bet you if it is like some of he others that she’s seen, Libby stated she did not know about a new engine, she stated she would think that he could look at the valves. Libby asked if the garage had torn it down to look at the valves. I informed her he did. Libby stated my engine is already torn apart. Libby stated she wished I would have called her before my vehicle was torn down. I informed her I did not have her number at that time. Libby stated that things could have been done differently. Libby stated the timing chain was covered by their bulletin and she stated shame on those dealers for dealing with you the way they did. Libby stated she wished I would have called her from the beginning, but I informed her I did not know her number at the time and I had my vehicle at the dealership and done all that I could with them and with customer service. Libby stated, she knows and now since you’re torn down at garage, correct. Libby asked if the garage is charging $1,300 to rebuild my engine. Libby thought I meant new, but I informed her that he will put in a engine that has 61,000 miles on it. Libby stated your garage is going to drop a engine that has 61,000 miles on it. I informed her he is. Libby asked how I knew the timing chain would be put on this one. Libby asked if it’s a Saturn engine. It is. Libby stated she had given me a lot to think about and she wants me to tell her. Libby stated she was trying to think of a way to help me. Libby stated repeated the amount. Libby asked what I wanted her to do. I informed her that when I had went to the dealership that this should’ve been taken care of. Libby agreed. Libby stated I should not have given up. Libby stated that I could have done a lot, but I just didn’t do it. I informed her that I did not want me vehicle to just sit at the dealership because they probably would have charged for storage. Libby stated of course. I informed her that I did not have that type of money to be throwing away.
Continuation of Complaint-page 8
Libby stated shame on them. So informed her that I did what was best for me and I was going to try to re-coupe from consumer protection. Libby stated she didn’t blame me. I stated, or the Attorney General’s office. Libby stated she didn’t blame me. I informed her that is still my option. Libby asked if I had checked the car on the website before I bought it. I informed her I had not. Libby stated she understood why I went to a garage. Libby wanted me to discuss with my mechanic about the timing chain. Libby stated if I wanted her to help me in financially she could go and try to re-coupe some of the cost based on the problems I had. Libby asked who I spoke did I speak with at Blossom. I informed her that I did not have his card with me. Libby asked for the division file number that I was given from the 1-800 complaint line, my vin #, she asked if I have a cell phone. I gave her my number. She asked for my home number. I gave it to her. Libby asked again if I bought this from Blossom and the name of the serviceman. Libby also needed the vin #, the customer service file #. Libby asked if I bought this vehicle from Blossom why didn’t they take care of this. I informed her they could not do the warranty work on it. Libby asked why and stated they new about the bulletin. I informed her that I told them about it. She stated “I know why they’re a Chevy dealer”. Libby stated, so you towed it to Saturn and asked how much was out of towing. I informed her $170.00. I informed Libby the tow amount to Blossom was $60, the tow amount to Saturn was $60 and the tow amount to the garage was $50. Libby made some notes. Libby asked if I thought about getting a new vehicle. Libby stated they had good deals on getting into a new vehicle. Libby stated if the engine that the garage was going to put in has 61,000 miles would he put on a new timing chain. I informed her that was something I requested because of the timing chain broke at 73 thousand miles. Libby also stated if I wanted to purchase another vehicle she could get me more money to put towards purchasing another vehicle. Libby wanted me to think about it and call her back with a decision or with the information she needed. I asked her after I have the pre-used engine put in my vehicle with 61,000 miles with a new timing chain and if the timing chain broke on the pre-used engine and if I take my vehicle to the Saturn dealership what would they do? Libby stated with a pre-used engine she would not honor because the dealership would inform her that I altered the engine. I informed her that the vehicle was at the shop in the beginning and the dealership did not honor the service bulletin as she stated they should have. Again, Libby stated for me to call her back with the information needed. Libby stated if her secretary takes the message make sure she repeats the information back to me. Libby stated that shame on those guys. Libby said she understood why Blossom didn’t take care of it because they’re a Chevy dealership and they wanted me to go to a Saturn dealership, but the Saturn guys they should have told me, yeah we could have worked out the $291 to have been applied to whatever it would have cost to do that timing chain. Chances are they would have gotten in there and stated it’s ruined this head and this head and we would’ve had to replace them. We would’ve replaced the heads because we know that was part of the issue. Libby stated she wished I would have stayed with the dealership, but that’s water under the bridge. I informed her I had my vehicle at the dealership and I tried to get my vehicle fixed.
Continuation of Complaint-page 9
On October 2, 2008 I spoke with Libby’s secretary and provided the information Libby needed.
On October 3, 2008 @ 3:27pm, I called Libby to see if she received the information I left with her Secretary.
On October 6, 2008 @ 4:04pm, I returned a call to Dan Fairbanks @ UAW/GM Center for Human Resources and left Dan a message.
On October 9, 2008 @ 3:35pm, I returned a call to Libby Tonosko to inform her that I left Dan Fairbanks a message but he had not returned my call. Libby stated he had been out sick for 2 days. Libby asked me for the latest on my issue. I informed her that my vehicle should be finished by tomorrow 10-20-08. Libby wanted me to refresh her memory. I informed her it was about my timing chain. Libby stated she remembered. She stated you have a Saturn, used right? I stated yes. Libby asked, I decided to do what. I stated to her I left a message with all the information she needed and stated I wanted to keep my vehicle and did not want to purchase another vehicle. Libby stated, so you are looking for reimbursement. Libby asked if Danny know that. I informed her I did not know I had left him a message and have not heard back from him. Libby stated he called because they wanted to know what my position was. I informed her that when he left me a message he wanted some additional information. So I was calling him back to let him know that I got his message. Libby asked if I had a total on that. I informed her that I did not have that information with me right now, but I left that information on his voicemail. Libby stated she did not have my file in front of her but that was not an excuse but she handed everything over to him until she gets down with something else. She asked if I would have any trouble with hanging on until the 14th. I asked her if he would be back on the 14th. Libby stated no she would be done with an assignment on the 14th and then she can pick up the pieces. Libby asked if my vehicle was fixed and if it was running. I informed her should be fixed tomorrow because I’m going to pick it up. Libby stated good luck and wanted me to keep her posted, please. Libby stated I will hear from Dan as soon as he gets back, but I’ll hear from her (Libby) after the 14th but they have the whole issue of my vehicle in the system by now. Libby stated it was just a matter of me hanging in there so she can work something out.
On October 13, 2008 @ 12:20pm, I left message for Dan Fairbanks after he left me a message on Friday, October 10, 2008.
On October 14, 2008 @ 3:24pm, I called Dan Fairbanks again, and received his voicemail again.
On October 15, 2008 @ 10:11am, Dan Fairbanks called. Mr. Fairbanks stated the reason of his call is because Libby had given him this case. Dan asked if I had called customer service. I informed him that I did. Dan asked if I was given a division file number. I informed him they did and gave him the number 71662930050.
Continuation of Complaint-page 10
Dan stated he wanted to get a better handle of what exactly is the problem because she (Libby) got $1,500 to replace something, a tear down of $291. I informed him that amount is what Saturn told me what it would cost to tear it down. Dan stated evidently it had something to do with an engine. I stated yes, my timing chain failed while I was driving and I had my vehicle towed to the dealership where I purchased it and they did a diagnostic on it and indicated that was the problem. Dan stated it was or wasn’t (to be clear of what I said). I informed him it was the timing chain. Dan asked when I called customer service what um, he stated they allow them to have first crack at this and evidently this has gone past them, but he asked what exactly did they tell me. I informed him that I spoke with Phil and I informed him the vehicle was at the dealership where I purchased it. Dan asked you bought it used in April of 2007. I informed him that was correct. Dan stated when I bought it used it had 48,000 miles. I informed him 48 and something. Dan stated, right now it has what. I informed him it has 73 thousand. I informed Dan when I spoke with Phil I informed him where I had the vehicle and Phil informed me I needed to get it to Saturn and I did. I had it towed to Saturn. Phil indicated that he could see what could be done and there was no guarantee. I informed Phil I had already had a diagnostic done on it and it was the timing chain was the dealership had informed me. Phil stated once I had the vehicle moved I would have to get another diagnostic done on the vehicle. I had the vehicle moved to the Saturn dealership and gave them the paperwork I had. Dan asked which Saturn dealership did I take the vehicle to. I informed him Saturn of Indianapolis on Pike Plaza Dr. I informed him I called Phil back and informed him my vehicle was moved and Phil informed me after he contacted Saturn he would call me back. Phil called Saturn and called me back to inform me I needed to pay $291 to tear it down. I informed Dan because of the diagnostic that was done I knew what the problem was the timing chain. Dan stated that wasn’t the diagnostic that was the amount to get to the timing chain. I informed him that I had already come out of pocket for towing and having my vehicle diagnosed. Dan asked what Chevrolet charged? I informed him $108.00. I informed Dan after that I was done and I didn’t want Saturn to start charging me storage and since Phil informed me of the $291.00 I had my vehicle moved because I did not want Saturn to start charging me storage. Dan asked if Phil offered anything other than the $291.00. I replied, basically Phil stated I had to pay the $291.00 to get anything started. Dan stated unfortunately he was right. Dan stated what they would have done was. Then Dan asked where my vehicle was now. I informed him I have it now. Dan asked if I got it fixed and where do did I take it to get it fixed. I informed him that I took it to a garage. Dan stated, ooh you took it to a garage and it was the timing chain. Dan asked if I was charged if I didn’t mind him asking me. I informed him there was damage to my valves and I had gotten a used engine put in. Dan asked, just out of curiosity did Libby advise you at all or did you talk to her before you took it away from Saturn. I informed Dan that I did not have Libby’s number at the time. Dan stated that was not a good move. I informed Dan that I have all of my notes and everything taken down of who I talked to, when I talked to them, what was said, because I am at work my calls are recorded so I did the best that I could in speaking with whoever I needed to speak with to try to get my vehicle repaired when I knew what the problem was and I was getting no where.
Continuation of Complaint-page 11
When I was asked to pay the $291 dollars to tear it down when I knew what the problem was. Phil stated the $291 wasn’t to tell me what the problem was the $291 was to get where the problem was. I informed Dan of the service bulletin on the timing chain failure. Dan stated he knew there was but it doesn’t do him much good now because I’ve taken somewhere else. I asked him what else was I suppose to do. Dan stated, Phil should’ve done and he stated he does not work in Phil’s department, in fact deals with their department to try to negotiate resolutions between the customer and either Phil’s department or the department above Phil’s which is executive customer assistance center. Dan stated which is who he will take to next to try get something done, but what Phil should have done was to explain to me that no that’s not necessarily diagnostics in getting in down there, but to get down there and what he should of said is once we get down there he should have none there was a bulletin. I informed Dan that I informed Phil what the reference number was of the bulletin. Dan stated, yeah and he should’ve already known that but it was even better that you told him what it was and that point of time Phil should have said well we may not be able to pay for this full repair because the car is out of warranty it’s a 2001 even though and the miles were at 73 thousand but still this should’ve happened at that point and time, so what they’re probably be able to do but can’t make that promise right now but we will be making partial payment on the repair once we find out and part of that partial payment for this tear down. I informed Dan that I was a little confused on this partial payment on a tear down. If the timing chain failed while I was driving how come that wasn’t something that should have been covered fully. Dan stated because my vehicle is not under warranty. I asked Dan, “so this service bulletin was just for warranty?” Dan stated well, he look the service bulletin up, but any service bulletin is out there and if it’s on a car that is this old and with that many mileage you’ll never going to get anything fully paid, no. Dan stated, now there is a difference between recalls and service bulletins. Recalls are things that are called back in to fix a problem and that can extend past warranties. Bulletins are out there saying there’s a problem out there, not on everyone single vehicle but there’s problems out there that could arise and when those arise these are the fixes for the problem that’s not saying that even if the car has 100 thousand miles or 50 thousand miles or whatever you know, what they try to do tough is customer center is if there is a bulletin out there, 1st of all that gives the dealership, you know a heads up, this is what the problem is, this is what the fix is, we’ve had a few of these and the customer assistance center will say okay we understand there’s some problems out there, let’s try to work with the customers to make the customers happy. It doesn’t say though that they’re going to pay for everything fully, which they never do.
Continuation of Complaint-page 12
If the cars under warranty, yeah they’ll fix it with no cost to you obviously because it’s under warranty and it was, say, 6 months away from the warranty or just um a few miles out of warranty, then we can go back and say look it is so close we should be able to get this thing taken care of and we’ll get it done then but this car (my car) is 7 to 8 years old and it was 36 thousand miles under warranty, so that was almost doubled almost the mileage of the warranty was so there’s no way that was going to happen but we would have been able to go back and get a partial payment on it and Phil should’ve at least offered me or said something to me but he just took the easy way out and said okay you don’t want to deal with me fine, I don’t have to deal with you, to be quite honest with me. Dan stated what he can do now is go back but he’ll be very straight with me taking it and then he stated he understood why I had took it to some place else other than the dealership and he stated, I truly, truly do. He stated he does not like dealing with dealerships himself. Dan stated by taking the vehicle to some place other than the dealership that makes what he tries to do going back, General Motors, he stated he couldn’t remember the last they paid money to someone who got work done somewhere other than the dealership, that’s going to be very hard to do. He stated we do have the bulletin and he stated he knew which bulletin I was talking about. He stated 73 thousand miles is right at the border line of miles as far as what they would consider normal wear and tear. He stated he didn’t think it should have, he believes timing chains should last to the length of the engine to tell me the truth but they don’t necessarily agree with that. He stated he will go back in and call executive customer assistance which is above Phil and will give them the history of the case and he will say they need to be giving me partial payment. Dan stated if anything what he may in being very honest with me to possibly, the diagnostic, towing to get it there, which was what $170.00. I informed him that was correct. Dan stated the towing and definitely the diagnostics for sure. Dan stated he’s pretty sure he can get that taken care of. As far as the rest of it, he stated he would try his best. I informed Dan to let me know what he comes up with and I’ll go from there. Dan stated the thing he would like to do is he stated he will tell me what he’s going to ask for cause it’s not a like when you go to buy a car but he thinks, honestly, they should at least be going for 50% of what my costs were. Dan stated that’s what it normally would’ve been if it would have been done and it would in…. but by him going back in and at least were being up front and he state he just let them know that I would have kept it at the Saturn dealership if Phil would have explained things differently to me and by Phil not doing his job it caused me to leave the dealership and take it some place else. I informed Dan to let me know and asked him if he had an idea when he would call me back. Dan stated sometimes they deal with him fairly quick and sometimes they don’t it depends on what their case load is. Dan stated he would definitely give me a call back today and let me know if he has heard anything. Dan stated if not he would be out of the office tomorrow (Thursday and the next day (Friday) but he would definitely give me a call back today
Continuation of Complaint-page 13
On October 15, 2008 @ 10:37am Dan called me back and stated that we’re going to go in a different direction. He stated they’ve added some more information on the service bulletin. Dan asked if I called the 1-800 number for Saturn to get reimbursement of my money that I put out to getting that fixed. Informed him of the number I had to reach Phil. Dan stated he believed we would have a better chance at doing this to get full reimbursement. Dan stated in looking at this they are leaving us an opening in saying. Dan asked if I read the bulletin. I informed him I did. Dan stated what he is seeing is there is a number for Saturn and he stated he tried to call but he can’t do it because it has to be me. Dan gave me a number to call and stated what it is if I have any questions or concerns that your retailer is unable to resolve, please contact customer assistance center @ the number listed below. Dan stated he called the number and it stated reimbursement for repairs, which is #3, then when selected it need the area code and number and he could not go any further. Dan stated up further in the bulletin it reads, customer reimbursement. All customer requests for previous repairs for recall conditions. Dan stated this is how we are going to have to handle this. Dan stated we would handle this as a previous repair. Dan stated he would think I should mention Phil anymore. Dan stated to inform them I had to go get this repair done and ask for claim form. Dan stated he assumed I have all my receipts. I informed him, I do. Dan stated for me to call 800-972-8876 and go through that and see where that takes me. Dan stated this is were we will try to head to first before he even calls executive customer service center to see if we can’t get full reimbursement this way. Dan asked if the garage inform me of the cost to repair the timing chain. I informed Dan at that time I did not have that information. Dan asked if the garage acted like this was cheaper to buy the used engine. I informed him I did not know the amount of repairs from Saturn. We went through the amounts of $1,500 for the engine, $170 for towing and $108 for the diagnostic. Dan stated once I hear something on that to give him a call back. I informed him that I would call and let him know.
On October 15, 2008 @ 6:08pm, I called Saturn Customer Assistance @ 800-972-8876 as instructed by Dan Fairbanks. I spoke with Rachel Strank a representative. I informed Rachel I was calling for reimbursement of repairs to my vehicle regarding the timing chain. Rachel gave me a file number of 71-671931741. Rachel asked for my name, address and my vehicle identification number. Rachel checked the vehicle history of my 2001 Saturn. Rachel stated my vehicle was a L200 and I thought my vehicle was an L100 as informed when I purchased it. Rachel asked where I purchased the vehicle and asked what happened. I explained to her what happened, about the diagnostic, the service bulletin, and I had taken my vehicle to a Saturn dealership. Rachel stated she would call Saturn to see if they performed a diagnostic and placed me on hold. Rachel returned to the line and stated I would not be reimbursed because damage was caused by something else and not be the recall. Rachel stated, they know the maintenance history and my vehicle was not equipped with one of the parts in the recall. I asked Rachel about the range of vin numbers. Rachel stated they knew which vehicle has the part, when they were put in but it was not installed in mine.
Continuation of Complaint-page 14
I asked Rachel why the service bulletin did not list the vehicle identification numbers of all the vehicles they knew had the part instead of the range of vins. Rachel repeated again, they knew which vehicles and when they were put in and my vehicle was not on Global Warranty Management.
Since my call with Customer Assistance (Reimbursement), I have called back Dan Fairbanks and left him a message.
On Thursday September 11 2008 while driving my vehicle stalled, cut off in traffic and would not restart. Luckily no one was behind me. A police officer stopped to help and asked if I needed a tow, I advised them I was in the process of calling a tow truck to pick-up my vehicle. My vehicle was towed to the Blossom Chevrolet, an Indianapolis GM dealer from whom I purchased it from. The next morning, Friday September 12, 2008 I went to the Blossom dealership to leave my keys and explain why my vehicle was there. The serviceman @ Blossom advised me they would perform a diagnostic and advised me the cost would be $108.00. Later that day on September 12, 2008 I received a call from the serviceman of Blossom to inform me they completed the diagnostic and stated the timing chain failed. The Blossom serviceman quoted me a price for repairs of $1,505.00. I informed him I needed to give him a call back. I spoke with a friend about my situation and was advised service bulletin # 06074 information on 2001 “L” series Saturn’s and the timing chain problems. The service bulletin # 06074A indicated the timing chain engine stall on 2001 “L” series Saturn’s with vehicle identification numbers from 1Y504884 to 1Y559453. I called my serviceman back and explained to him about the service bulletin and provided him with the service bulletin number #06074A. He located the bulletin himself and stated my vehicle does fall within the “vin” number series. He checked to see if my engine matched and it was the correct engine. He replied he would speak with his warranty clerk and call me back. While waiting for him to call me back, I called Saturn of Indianapolis and spoke with Warren about the service bulletin, he checked his information and informed me my 2001 “L” series with vehicle identification number (vin) ending as 1Y522171 was not included. I received a call back from the serviceman @ Blossom Chevrolet and was informed even though they are part of GM (General Motors) they could not complete the warranty work and I needed to have the warranty work completed by a Saturn dealer. I then called back Saturn of Indianapolis and spoke with Warren again about the service bulletin and was given a number to contact Saturn customer service.
September 12, 2008 @ 4:49pm, I spoke with Phil Fenton of Saturn Customer Service. I explained to him what I was calling about. I gave him my first, last name and phone number. He asked for the “vin” number of my vehicle. Phil asked for the number of miles on my vehicle. Phil placed me on hold and came back to the line. Phil stated, he looked at the vehicle history and showed only 1 recall pertaining to the tail lamp/brake light. I explained to him that my vehicle stalled and stopped while I was driving. I advised him about the service bulletin # 06074A and that I spoke with someone at a Saturn dealership and they did not find my vehicle on dealer world. Phil stated that they could look into to some type of cost assistance, but he could not promise anything on that. Phil stated my vehicle was not covered under any special recall or bulletin on his computer and it would not be covered under that spectrum of things but definitely he could speak to the service department to see if there is any assistance that they could provide for me. I asked Phil what type of assistance would be provided. Phil stated he would have to speak with them to see if there is any ability to provide some cost assistance. Phil stated he was not saying that he would be able to, but he would be able to look into it for me. Continuation of Complaint-page 2
I informed him that I would like for him to speak with the dealership and advised him that I was looking at the service bulletin regarding the timing chain. Phil stated recalls due affect particular vehicles not all vehicles and on sometimes the same issue does happen but it has nothing to do with the actual recall. Phil stated again he was not showing a recall on my vehicle, but he stated he would like to look into it and speak with the dealership and see there is anything they can do for me. Phil asked for my address so he could open up a file. I provided him with my address. Phil asked me if I was the original owner of the vehicle. I explained to him I was not the original owner but I purchased the vehicle from a dealership and someone else owned the vehicle before me. Phil asked if I was the primary driver of the vehicle. I informed him, I was. Phil asked if the vehicle was for personal use or business. I informed him I use the vehicle to go to work. He asked for the name of the dealership I purchased the vehicle at. I told him Blossom Chevrolet in Indianapolis, IN. Phil asked again about the mileage repeated what I advised him (about 70,000 miles). Phil asked for the mileage when the vehicle was purchased. I answered about 48,000 close to 50,000 miles, but was not sure of the exact mileage. Phil asked when I purchased the vehicle. I answered in April of 2007. Phil asked if I purchased an extended service plan. I informed him I did not purchase an extended service plan. Phil asked when about did the timing chain problem occur. I informed him yesterday (9-11-08) while I was driving, the vehicle acted like it was going to cut off and it did cut off and did not restart. I explained again that I had my vehicle towed to the dealership and they did a diagnostic on it and determined what the problem was, timing chain. Phil asked what Saturn retailer was it. I explained that I had taken my vehicle to the same place where I purchased it from which was Blossom Chevrolet. Phil stated what he needed me to do is if I am looking for some sort of cost assistance, it would have to go to a Saturn retailer. I informed him that I did contact them (Saturn) and the person I spoke with had indicated he did not see my vehicle in the recall. Per Phil my vehicle is not. Phil stated if I am seeking some sort of cost assistance they would have to have me to take my vehicle to a Saturn retailer and have them to diagnose it and the diagnostic charge would be at my own cost since the vehicle is not covered under warranty any longer and then after that he would certainly look into some sort of cost assistance. I asked him what would be done after my vehicle is taken to the Saturn dealership. I asked Phil if someone contact the dealership to discuss the issue or if I would needed to do so. Phil stated what I would have to do is take it in and he could setup an appointment for me to take it in to the retailer and I would need to have the diagnostic done on it and I would have to pay for it and then what he would be able to do is phone the dealership back find out the diagnosis on it, speak with the manager there to see if there’s anything that they could do for me and then get back in contact with me. I informed him that I would call him back on Monday. Phil stated he had opened up a file and would temporarily close it for when I phone back with my decision. Phil gave me his direct line so I would not have to go through this again with someone else. Phil gave me his name (Phil) and number of 866-790-5700 ext 41730 and my file # is 71662930050. Continuation of Complaint-page 3
Phil stated he would temporarily close the file if I’ve decided to take it to the dealership to give him a call back and go from there. Phil asked if there was anything else that he could do for me. I responded, not for now and we ended the call.
On September 14th 2008 I paid the diagnostic fee at GM dealer (Blossom) for the diagnosis and received the service paperwork from them along with a copy of the service bulletin I informed them of. I then had my vehicle towed to Saturn the same day.
On September 16, 2008 at 10:24am I received a call from Debbie of Saturn stating my vehicle does not qualify for the recall and what needed to be done is to tear down the engine to find out what kind of damage has been done. Debbie stated the tear down cost translates to about $291.00. I asked her why my vehicle was not included in the recall. Debbie stated she could not. Debbie stated they pull from a site directly from General Motors that tells them all the information on any car and it told her what recalls are available for each individual vehicle and my vehicle is not included in that timing chain recall. Debbie advised me I had 1 for the tail light that she could do. I asked why there is a service bulletin with a range showing vin numbers that is included in the warranty work and my vehicle is in the range, but I’m not included. Debbie stated recalls depend on a lot of different things not only that year and the vin number. Debbie stated it depends on what plant it comes out of, what time of the week it is and that type of thing, so all of the vehicles even though they fall under that do not qualify. I asked for her to send me something in writing about that. I gave her my fax number. I received 2 faxes from her. 1 showing the recalls available on the vehicle and a copy of the service bulletin pointing out not all vehicles are included on the bulletin in the vin range.
On September 16, 2008 at 2:36pm, I called Debbie back at Saturn to advise her that I received the information she faxed to me and advised her I was aware of other complaints that were reported about the timing chain engine stall and I would be filing a complaint with consumer affairs and other organizations. Debbie asked me if I had called Saturn directly. I asked for the number of Saturn directly. Debbie gave me the same number I already had. Debbie stated the fax from her of the service bulletin with a note on the cover page stating to see the noted area of the bulletin
On September 16, 2008 at 2:49pm, I called Saturn Customer Assistance and spoke with Amy Casey. I informed her that I was calling to speak with Phil and that I was trying to reach him on the direct extension that he gave me. Amy asked me if I had a case number. I informed her that I had a file number but I was not sure if it was still open or not. I gave her the file #. Amy checked to see if the case was still open. Amy asked for my name. I gave her the information. Amy asked, when was the last time I spoke with Phil. I informed her Thursday or Friday. Amy asked me if this was regarding a timing chain. I stated yes. Amy stated that he does have the service request closed and she was not sure why but she stated that she would look into. Continuation of Complaint-page 4
Amy asked me if I had his correct extension and gave her the extension and she advised me that was correct. Amy asked me if I tried that extension and I informed her that I did and got her.
Amy looked to see why the case was closed already. Amy put me on hold for a few minutes while she reviewed the file. Amy came back to the line and asked if I would be taking the vehicle to a Saturn dealer. I stated yes.
Amy stated that she would try Phil’s extension to see if he was available and then if not she would take documentation and notify him through the system. Amy tried his extension. She got his voicemail and she transferred me to his voicemail and she stated she would send him a message as well. I left him a message with my name, file # and the message indicating I wanted to discuss some things with him and to call me back. I also left him a message with my phone numbers to call back.
On September 17, 2008 @ 7:52pm I received a return call from Phil of Saturn Customer Service. I advised him that my vehicle was at the dealership, Saturn of Indianapolis on Georgetown Rd. Phil stated he would contact the dealership and give me a call back.
On September 18, 2008 @ 7:29pm Phil called back and stated he spoke with the dealership and in order to determine the damage I would have to pay $291 to tear down the vehicle. Phil stated that I would have to pay this in order to determine if it was the timing chain. I explained to him that I had a diagnostic done and knew that it was the timing chain. Phil stated that due to the age, mileage and past history of the unit at the dealership I would have to pay the $291.00 for them to tear it down.
On September 23, 2008 @ 1:40pm, I called Dwayne at Saturn of Indianapolis and informed him to fix the tail lamp/brake light recall on my vehicle. I asked him if they did a diagnostic of my vehicle or if they went off of the paperwork I provided to them. Dwayne stated they did not diagnose it at all they just went off the paperwork I provided to them. I informed him that I would come and get my vehicle today and I stated to. I stated to him, there are no charges, is that correct. Dwayne stated, he didn’t think so. I called back @ 1:53pm, to find out when the vehicle will be ready for pick-up. Dwayne stated it would be ready within the hour.
On September 23, 2008 @ 4:15pm I had my vehicle towed to a garage because I felt I should’ve been included in the service bulletin and should’ve not had to pay $291.00 to tear it down when I knew about the timing chain engine stall service bulletin # 06074A and I did not want to be charged storage fees for my vehicle sitting a the dealership.
On September 24, 2008 my repairman at the garage called me and advised me my timing chain had broke, damaged the head and valves. My repairman advised me I was better off replacing the engine. Continuation of Complaint-page 5
On September 25, 2008 I went to my repairman’s garage and he showed me the damage. I took pictures.
A friend provided me with a contact name and number of someone at General Motors, Libby Tonosko. I called her on September 29, 2008 @ 12:29pm and left a message.
On September 29, 2008 @1:12pm, Libby called back. I explained to her what my situation. I also informed her that someone I knew worked there and provided me her phone number. I informed her I have a 2001 L series Saturn and informed her that I know there was a recall (service bulletin) on timing chain engine stall failure. I explained to her that I have a 2001 Saturn and the same thing happened to my vehicle. Libby asked me how many miles are on it. I informed her 73 thousand and something. Libby stated “that’s all”. I stated yes. I informed her that I did not purchase the vehicle for a Saturn dealership, but I bought it from a GM dealership. Libby asked me new or used. I informed her used. I informed her that while driving my vehicle stopped on me and I had it towed to the dealership where I purchased it. I advised Libby a diagnostic was done to determine what the problem was and the dealership informed me the timing chain had failed and was given a price. I informed her that I talked with some people I work with stated the price was considerably high. Libby asked for the price. I informed her fifteen hundred and something dollars. Libby stated “really and they thought that was high”. Libby asked if anyone were I was at ever replaced a timing chain. I informed her that I had a few people that could do so. Libby put me on hold. Libby came back to the line and I continued to explain. Libby asked if the price of $1,500 was to repair it or replace it. I stated to replace it. Libby asked who I bought it from. I told her Blossom Chevrolet. Libby asked where they were. I continue to explain my story. I informed her that I received some information on the recall and then I stated or the service bulletin. Libby stated correct it was not a recall but a service bulletin. I informed her that the service bulletin indicated stated the same problem I had and it indicated the year, make “L” series as well as the vin numbers from one point to another point. Libby stated okay, go ahead I got all that. Libby said “I mean I know all that go ahead”. So I informed Libby that my vin was included in the vin range for that. So I had it towed to a Saturn dealership and they wanted me to pay $291 to tear it down. Libby replied, “in which they (Saturn) would have been applied to your, them having to replace or repair your transmission”. I stated my transmission. Libby stated I’m sorry not your transmission, but your timing. Libby stated I’m writing and thinking to. I continued to explain I informed her that no one indicated that to me. I informed her they wanted me to pay the $291 to tear it down and I had just paid tow bills and had paid the money for it to be diagnosed at the other shop and I knew what the problem was. Libby stated wait let me make sure I understand. Libby repeated me, at one shop you had it diagnosed. I informed her yes. Libby asked where was done, Blossom, she asked. I informed her yes. Then Libby asked, and then you took it where? I informed her to Saturn. Libby asked me Saturn what. I informed Libby a Saturn dealership in Indianapolis. Libby asked me for the name of the dealership. Continuation of Complaint-page 6
I informed her Saturn of Indianapolis off of, Pike Plaza Dr. Libby stated you didn’t tow it you just went there right. I informed her that I had it towed there. Libby stated 2 places that you’ve towed it. I stated yes I did. Libby stated okay, then asked me for their number. I gave Libby the number to Saturn of Indianapolis (317) 293-1551. She asked what they told me. I stated they informed me that I needed to pay $291 for them to tear it down. Then she asked me about the $1,500 was at Blossom, is that correct. I stated yes but Saturn did not give me a quote of the amount to repair the timing chain. She asked if they (Saturn) said anything about the tear down fee being applied? I informed her they did not indicate that to me. Blossom informed me that they could not do the warranty work on the service bulletin but I would have to take it to a Saturn dealership. So I informed her that is what I did. She asked me if I bought from Blossom. I stated yes. Libby asked when I purchased the vehicle. I informed her in April of 2007. Libby asked for the mileage on it. I informed her I believe it was forty-eight something miles. Then Libby asked what is it now (mileage). I stated seventy-three something. Libby stated that I got 35 thousand miles out of it from the day I bought it or something like that. Libby stated it ran for 35 thousand miles with no problems approximately. (The mileage was 25,000). Libby stated the only reason why I mentioned that is that she believed the engine ought to run longer than that don’t you? I responded “oh definitely”. Libby asked if I had the bulletin in my hand. I informed her that I did not at the time. Libby looked it up and stated it is well known through out Saturn. I wanted to continue to explain. I informed her that after I received the information I talked with someone at the Saturn 800 number. She asked me if they had given me a complaint number. I told her I have one, but did not have it with me. I informed her that I talked with Phil at that number and I explained to him that my vehicle was still at Chevy and I had it towed. I informed her that Phil also stated I had to pay the $291 to tear it down and I informed her that I did not have that type of money to be just putting out. Libby stated they already know that there’s the bulletin out and they didn’t just cut through the chase. I informed her no. I informed her that I had the vehicle moved because I needed to get the vehicle fixed and if they were not going to do what I know that should’ve been included in that, so I had it moved and I had it moved to a garage. My repairman at the garage informed me some valves were messed up and I would be better off with a new engine. Libby stated it could. Libby asked for the total bill. Then she asked how much do I owe on the car. I informed her that I did not have the total right now. Libby asked if I was financed through GMAC. I informed her that I was financed through someone else. I informed her that I have a bill for $1,300 for a new engine, labor and I have tow bills. Libby started totaling what I informed her of. Libby asked if I was having an engine put in. I informed her yes. Libby asked how was putting it in. I informed her, the garage. Libby stated she cannot deal with me. Libby made a suggestion, she asked if he was already doing it (having my repairs done). I informed her that I was not sure if he (my repairman) started yet. Continuation of Complaint-page 7
Libby stated she deal with dealerships and once in a while she look at someone who wants to go to who cannot afford, let say we cover half of it. She stated who knows, but I may be able to re-coupe all of it but was just giving me some things to think about. Libby asked by me going to an outside dealership, what would I have something goes wrong.
She stated as compared to if you have it done at a dealership you got if something goes wrong. I replied, a warranty on both sides. She stated that would be up to me. Libby stated she didn’t know the garage that I’m dealing with but she strongly recommend going to a dealership. She stated it can be tracked, they are responsible and they can do more things when the work doesn’t turn out right. Libby stated I did not have to listen to her, but she stated she was giving me options. Libby stated she’s looking at my total bill, she stated $1,300 for the engine and $1,500 for the timing chain. I informed her that was not correct. The $1,500 was the repair price from Blossom before the new of the service bulletin. I informed Libby the price was $1,300 which included the labor to put in the new engine. Libby repeated me. Libby asked, from the garage does the price reflect the engine cost also. I informed her that it does. Libby stated the garage could put in a whole new engine which will also need a new timing chain. I informed her that he will put on a new chain, but I do not have the price at this time for the chain. Libby cautioned me and stated I can do what I want because it is my vehicle. Libby stated let’s say you have to replace both, she stated I’ll bet you if it is like some of he others that she’s seen, Libby stated she did not know about a new engine, she stated she would think that he could look at the valves. Libby asked if the garage had torn it down to look at the valves. I informed her he did. Libby stated my engine is already torn apart. Libby stated she wished I would have called her before my vehicle was torn down. I informed her I did not have her number at that time. Libby stated that things could have been done differently. Libby stated the timing chain was covered by their bulletin and she stated shame on those dealers for dealing with you the way they did. Libby stated she wished I would have called her from the beginning, but I informed her I did not know her number at the time and I had my vehicle at the dealership and done all that I could with them and with customer service. Libby stated, she knows and now since you’re torn down at garage, correct. Libby asked if the garage is charging $1,300 to rebuild my engine. Libby thought I meant new, but I informed her that he will put in a engine that has 61,000 miles on it. Libby stated your garage is going to drop a engine that has 61,000 miles on it. I informed her he is. Libby asked how I knew the timing chain would be put on this one. Libby asked if it’s a Saturn engine. It is. Libby stated she had given me a lot to think about and she wants me to tell her. Libby stated she was trying to think of a way to help me. Libby stated repeated the amount. Libby asked what I wanted her to do. I informed her that when I had went to the dealership that this should’ve been taken care of. Libby agreed. Libby stated I should not have given up. Libby stated that I could have done a lot, but I just didn’t do it. I informed her that I did not want me vehicle to just sit at the dealership because they probably would have charged for storage. Libby stated of course. I informed her that I did not have that type of money to be throwing away. Continuation of Complaint-page 8
Libby stated shame on them. So informed her that I did what was best for me and I was going to try to re-coupe from consumer protection. Libby stated she didn’t blame me. I stated, or the Attorney General’s office. Libby stated she didn’t blame me. I informed her that is still my option. Libby asked if I had checked the car on the website before I bought it. I informed her I had not. Libby stated she understood why I went to a garage. Libby wanted me to discuss with my mechanic about the timing chain. Libby stated if I wanted her to help me in financially she could go and try to re-coupe some of the cost based on the problems I had. Libby asked who I spoke did I speak with at Blossom. I informed her that I did not have his card with me. Libby asked for the division file number that I was given from the 1-800 complaint line, my vin #, she asked if I have a cell phone. I gave her my number. She asked for my home number. I gave it to her. Libby asked again if I bought this from Blossom and the name of the serviceman. Libby also needed the vin #, the customer service file #. Libby asked if I bought this vehicle from Blossom why didn’t they take care of this. I informed her they could not do the warranty work on it. Libby asked why and stated they new about the bulletin. I informed her that I told them about it. She stated “I know why they’re a Chevy dealer”. Libby stated, so you towed it to Saturn and asked how much was out of towing. I informed her $170.00. I informed Libby the tow amount to Blossom was $60, the tow amount to Saturn was $60 and the tow amount to the garage was $50. Libby made some notes. Libby asked if I thought about getting a new vehicle. Libby stated they had good deals on getting into a new vehicle. Libby stated if the engine that the garage was going to put in has 61,000 miles would he put on a new timing chain. I informed her that was something I requested because of the timing chain broke at 73 thousand miles. Libby also stated if I wanted to purchase another vehicle she could get me more money to put towards purchasing another vehicle. Libby wanted me to think about it and call her back with a decision or with the information she needed. I asked her after I have the pre-used engine put in my vehicle with 61,000 miles with a new timing chain and if the timing chain broke on the pre-used engine and if I take my vehicle to the Saturn dealership what would they do? Libby stated with a pre-used engine she would not honor because the dealership would inform her that I altered the engine. I informed her that the vehicle was at the shop in the beginning and the dealership did not honor the service bulletin as she stated they should have. Again, Libby stated for me to call her back with the information needed. Libby stated if her secretary takes the message make sure she repeats the information back to me. Libby stated that shame on those guys. Libby said she understood why Blossom didn’t take care of it because they’re a Chevy dealership and they wanted me to go to a Saturn dealership, but the Saturn guys they should have told me, yeah we could have worked out the $291 to have been applied to whatever it would have cost to do that timing chain. Chances are they would have gotten in there and stated it’s ruined this head and this head and we would’ve had to replace them. We would’ve replaced the heads because we know that was part of the issue. Libby stated she wished I would have stayed with the dealership, but that’s water under the bridge. I informed her I had my vehicle at the dealership and I tried to get my vehicle fixed. Continuation of Complaint-page 9
On October 2, 2008 I spoke with Libby’s secretary and provided the information Libby needed.
On October 3, 2008 @ 3:27pm, I called Libby to see if she received the information I left with her Secretary.
On October 6, 2008 @ 4:04pm, I returned a call to Dan Fairbanks @ UAW/GM Center for Human Resources and left Dan a message.
On October 9, 2008 @ 3:35pm, I returned a call to Libby Tonosko to inform her that I left Dan Fairbanks a message but he had not returned my call. Libby stated he had been out sick for 2 days. Libby asked me for the latest on my issue. I informed her that my vehicle should be finished by tomorrow 10-20-08. Libby wanted me to refresh her memory. I informed her it was about my timing chain. Libby stated she remembered. She stated you have a Saturn, used right? I stated yes. Libby asked, I decided to do what. I stated to her I left a message with all the information she needed and stated I wanted to keep my vehicle and did not want to purchase another vehicle. Libby stated, so you are looking for reimbursement. Libby asked if Danny know that. I informed her I did not know I had left him a message and have not heard back from him. Libby stated he called because they wanted to know what my position was. I informed her that when he left me a message he wanted some additional information. So I was calling him back to let him know that I got his message. Libby asked if I had a total on that. I informed her that I did not have that information with me right now, but I left that information on his voicemail. Libby stated she did not have my file in front of her but that was not an excuse but she handed everything over to him until she gets down with something else. She asked if I would have any trouble with hanging on until the 14th. I asked her if he would be back on the 14th. Libby stated no she would be done with an assignment on the 14th and then she can pick up the pieces. Libby asked if my vehicle was fixed and if it was running. I informed her should be fixed tomorrow because I’m going to pick it up. Libby stated good luck and wanted me to keep her posted, please. Libby stated I will hear from Dan as soon as he gets back, but I’ll hear from her (Libby) after the 14th but they have the whole issue of my vehicle in the system by now. Libby stated it was just a matter of me hanging in there so she can work something out.
On October 13, 2008 @ 12:20pm, I left message for Dan Fairbanks after he left me a message on Friday, October 10, 2008.
On October 14, 2008 @ 3:24pm, I called Dan Fairbanks again, and received his voicemail again.
On October 15, 2008 @ 10:11am, Dan Fairbanks called. Mr. Fairbanks stated the reason of his call is because Libby had given him this case. Dan asked if I had called customer service. I informed him that I did. Dan asked if I was given a division file number. I informed him they did and gave him the number 71662930050. Continuation of Complaint-page 10
Dan stated he wanted to get a better handle of what exactly is the problem because she (Libby) got $1,500 to replace something, a tear down of $291. I informed him that amount is what Saturn told me what it would cost to tear it down. Dan stated evidently it had something to do with an engine. I stated yes, my timing chain failed while I was driving and I had my vehicle towed to the dealership where I purchased it and they did a diagnostic on it and indicated that was the problem. Dan stated it was or wasn’t (to be clear of what I said). I informed him it was the timing chain. Dan asked when I called customer service what um, he stated they allow them to have first crack at this and evidently this has gone past them, but he asked what exactly did they tell me. I informed him that I spoke with Phil and I informed him the vehicle was at the dealership where I purchased it. Dan asked you bought it used in April of 2007. I informed him that was correct. Dan stated when I bought it used it had 48,000 miles. I informed him 48 and something. Dan stated, right now it has what. I informed him it has 73 thousand. I informed Dan when I spoke with Phil I informed him where I had the vehicle and Phil informed me I needed to get it to Saturn and I did. I had it towed to Saturn. Phil indicated that he could see what could be done and there was no guarantee. I informed Phil I had already had a diagnostic done on it and it was the timing chain was the dealership had informed me. Phil stated once I had the vehicle moved I would have to get another diagnostic done on the vehicle. I had the vehicle moved to the Saturn dealership and gave them the paperwork I had. Dan asked which Saturn dealership did I take the vehicle to. I informed him Saturn of Indianapolis on Pike Plaza Dr. I informed him I called Phil back and informed him my vehicle was moved and Phil informed me after he contacted Saturn he would call me back. Phil called Saturn and called me back to inform me I needed to pay $291 to tear it down. I informed Dan because of the diagnostic that was done I knew what the problem was the timing chain. Dan stated that wasn’t the diagnostic that was the amount to get to the timing chain. I informed him that I had already come out of pocket for towing and having my vehicle diagnosed. Dan asked what Chevrolet charged? I informed him $108.00. I informed Dan after that I was done and I didn’t want Saturn to start charging me storage and since Phil informed me of the $291.00 I had my vehicle moved because I did not want Saturn to start charging me storage. Dan asked if Phil offered anything other than the $291.00. I replied, basically Phil stated I had to pay the $291.00 to get anything started. Dan stated unfortunately he was right. Dan stated what they would have done was. Then Dan asked where my vehicle was now. I informed him I have it now. Dan asked if I got it fixed and where do did I take it to get it fixed. I informed him that I took it to a garage. Dan stated, ooh you took it to a garage and it was the timing chain. Dan asked if I was charged if I didn’t mind him asking me. I informed him there was damage to my valves and I had gotten a used engine put in. Dan asked, just out of curiosity did Libby advise you at all or did you talk to her before you took it away from Saturn. I informed Dan that I did not have Libby’s number at the time. Dan stated that was not a good move. I informed Dan that I have all of my notes and everything taken down of who I talked to, when I talked to them, what was said, because I am at work my calls are recorded so I did the best that I could in speaking with whoever I needed to speak with to try to get my vehicle repaired when I knew what the problem was and I was getting no where. Continuation of Complaint-page 11
When I was asked to pay the $291 dollars to tear it down when I knew what the problem was. Phil stated the $291 wasn’t to tell me what the problem was the $291 was to get where the problem was. I informed Dan of the service bulletin on the timing chain failure. Dan stated he knew there was but it doesn’t do him much good now because I’ve taken somewhere else. I asked him what else was I suppose to do. Dan stated, Phil should’ve done and he stated he does not work in Phil’s department, in fact deals with their department to try to negotiate resolutions between the customer and either Phil’s department or the department above Phil’s which is executive customer assistance center. Dan stated which is who he will take to next to try get something done, but what Phil should have done was to explain to me that no that’s not necessarily diagnostics in getting in down there, but to get down there and what he should of said is once we get down there he should have none there was a bulletin. I informed Dan that I informed Phil what the reference number was of the bulletin. Dan stated, yeah and he should’ve already known that but it was even better that you told him what it was and that point of time Phil should have said well we may not be able to pay for this full repair because the car is out of warranty it’s a 2001 even though and the miles were at 73 thousand but still this should’ve happened at that point and time, so what they’re probably be able to do but can’t make that promise right now but we will be making partial payment on the repair once we find out and part of that partial payment for this tear down. I informed Dan that I was a little confused on this partial payment on a tear down. If the timing chain failed while I was driving how come that wasn’t something that should have been covered fully. Dan stated because my vehicle is not under warranty. I asked Dan, “so this service bulletin was just for warranty?” Dan stated well, he look the service bulletin up, but any service bulletin is out there and if it’s on a car that is this old and with that many mileage you’ll never going to get anything fully paid, no. Dan stated, now there is a difference between recalls and service bulletins. Recalls are things that are called back in to fix a problem and that can extend past warranties. Bulletins are out there saying there’s a problem out there, not on everyone single vehicle but there’s problems out there that could arise and when those arise these are the fixes for the problem that’s not saying that even if the car has 100 thousand miles or 50 thousand miles or whatever you know, what they try to do tough is customer center is if there is a bulletin out there, 1st of all that gives the dealership, you know a heads up, this is what the problem is, this is what the fix is, we’ve had a few of these and the customer assistance center will say okay we understand there’s some problems out there, let’s try to work with the customers to make the customers happy. It doesn’t say though that they’re going to pay for everything fully, which they never do.
Continuation of Complaint-page 12
If the cars under warranty, yeah they’ll fix it with no cost to you obviously because it’s under warranty and it was, say, 6 months away from the warranty or just um a few miles out of warranty, then we can go back and say look it is so close we should be able to get this thing taken care of and we’ll get it done then but this car (my car) is 7 to 8 years old and it was 36 thousand miles under warranty, so that was almost doubled almost the mileage of the warranty was so there’s no way that was going to happen but we would have been able to go back and get a partial payment on it and Phil should’ve at least offered me or said something to me but he just took the easy way out and said okay you don’t want to deal with me fine, I don’t have to deal with you, to be quite honest with me. Dan stated what he can do now is go back but he’ll be very straight with me taking it and then he stated he understood why I had took it to some place else other than the dealership and he stated, I truly, truly do. He stated he does not like dealing with dealerships himself. Dan stated by taking the vehicle to some place other than the dealership that makes what he tries to do going back, General Motors, he stated he couldn’t remember the last they paid money to someone who got work done somewhere other than the dealership, that’s going to be very hard to do. He stated we do have the bulletin and he stated he knew which bulletin I was talking about. He stated 73 thousand miles is right at the border line of miles as far as what they would consider normal wear and tear. He stated he didn’t think it should have, he believes timing chains should last to the length of the engine to tell me the truth but they don’t necessarily agree with that. He stated he will go back in and call executive customer assistance which is above Phil and will give them the history of the case and he will say they need to be giving me partial payment. Dan stated if anything what he may in being very honest with me to possibly, the diagnostic, towing to get it there, which was what $170.00. I informed him that was correct. Dan stated the towing and definitely the diagnostics for sure. Dan stated he’s pretty sure he can get that taken care of. As far as the rest of it, he stated he would try his best. I informed Dan to let me know what he comes up with and I’ll go from there. Dan stated the thing he would like to do is he stated he will tell me what he’s going to ask for cause it’s not a like when you go to buy a car but he thinks, honestly, they should at least be going for 50% of what my costs were. Dan stated that’s what it normally would’ve been if it would have been done and it would in…. but by him going back in and at least were being up front and he state he just let them know that I would have kept it at the Saturn dealership if Phil would have explained things differently to me and by Phil not doing his job it caused me to leave the dealership and take it some place else. I informed Dan to let me know and asked him if he had an idea when he would call me back. Dan stated sometimes they deal with him fairly quick and sometimes they don’t it depends on what their case load is. Dan stated he would definitely give me a call back today and let me know if he has heard anything. Dan stated if not he would be out of the office tomorrow (Thursday and the next day (Friday) but he would definitely give me a call back today
Continuation of Complaint-page 13
On October 15, 2008 @ 10:37am Dan called me back and stated that we’re going to go in a different direction. He stated they’ve added some more information on the service bulletin. Dan asked if I called the 1-800 number for Saturn to get reimbursement of my money that I put out to getting that fixed. Informed him of the number I had to reach Phil. Dan stated he believed we would have a better chance at doing this to get full reimbursement. Dan stated in looking at this they are leaving us an opening in saying. Dan asked if I read the bulletin. I informed him I did. Dan stated what he is seeing is there is a number for Saturn and he stated he tried to call but he can’t do it because it has to be me. Dan gave me a number to call and stated what it is if I have any questions or concerns that your retailer is unable to resolve, please contact customer assistance center @ the number listed below. Dan stated he called the number and it stated reimbursement for repairs, which is #3, then when selected it need the area code and number and he could not go any further. Dan stated up further in the bulletin it reads, customer reimbursement. All customer requests for previous repairs for recall conditions. Dan stated this is how we are going to have to handle this. Dan stated we would handle this as a previous repair. Dan stated he would think I should mention Phil anymore. Dan stated to inform them I had to go get this repair done and ask for claim form. Dan stated he assumed I have all my receipts. I informed him, I do. Dan stated for me to call 800-972-8876 and go through that and see where that takes me. Dan stated this is were we will try to head to first before he even calls executive customer service center to see if we can’t get full reimbursement this way. Dan asked if the garage inform me of the cost to repair the timing chain. I informed Dan at that time I did not have that information. Dan asked if the garage acted like this was cheaper to buy the used engine. I informed him I did not know the amount of repairs from Saturn. We went through the amounts of $1,500 for the engine, $170 for towing and $108 for the diagnostic. Dan stated once I hear something on that to give him a call back. I informed him that I would call and let him know.
On October 15, 2008 @ 6:08pm, I called Saturn Customer Assistance @ 800-972-8876 as instructed by Dan Fairbanks. I spoke with Rachel Strank a representative. I informed Rachel I was calling for reimbursement of repairs to my vehicle regarding the timing chain. Rachel gave me a file number of 71-671931741. Rachel asked for my name, address and my vehicle identification number. Rachel checked the vehicle history of my 2001 Saturn. Rachel stated my vehicle was a L200 and I thought my vehicle was an L100 as informed when I purchased it. Rachel asked where I purchased the vehicle and asked what happened. I explained to her what happened, about the diagnostic, the service bulletin, and I had taken my vehicle to a Saturn dealership. Rachel stated she would call Saturn to see if they performed a diagnostic and placed me on hold. Rachel returned to the line and stated I would not be reimbursed because damage was caused by something else and not be the recall. Rachel stated, they know the maintenance history and my vehicle was not equipped with one of the parts in the recall. I asked Rachel about the range of vin numbers. Rachel stated they knew which vehicle has the part, when they were put in but it was not installed in mine.
Continuation of Complaint-page 14
I asked Rachel why the service bulletin did not list the vehicle identification numbers of all the vehicles they knew had the part instead of the range of vins. Rachel repeated again, they knew which vehicles and when they were put in and my vehicle was not on Global Warranty Management.
Since my call with Customer Assistance (Reimbursement), I have called back Dan Fairbanks and left him a message.
- Dawn W., 2282 Lake Crest Dr, IN, Indpls, US